In this episode I’m joined by Sophie Brigstocke, owner of Nurturing Birth, Birth and Post Natal Doula, Doula trainer and breastfeeding counsellor.
Sophie has a wealth of birth related knowledge, and in this episode she shares all about birth partners and how they can support you during induction.
You can read more about decision making in labour in this blog post: https://positiveinduction.com/decision-making-for-induction/
And you can access the Positive Induction Course here: https://positiveinduction.com/course/
Transcript (Note this is automatically created so may contain errors)
And this episode, I’m joined by Sophie Brigstocke owner of nurturing birth. Sophie is a birth and postnatal doula. She’s also a dealer trainer on breastfeeding counsellor. So Sophie has a wealth of breath related knowledge onto this episode. She shares all about birth partners and how they can support you during induction. So care’s confusion can grab your breath partner if possible, and enjoy You’re listening to the positive induction podcast,
a podcast for those who have chosen to have an induction or for those interested in how they can make an induction of labor, a more positive experience. I’m your host, Jade Gordon, Calico hypnotherapist, hypnobirthing teacher, and positive induction coach. As always, I want to remain too positive. Birth means different things to different people. For example, it may be about feeling and control being part of the decision-making being respected,
being informed. It does not mean perfect. My aim here is to bring you tips, inspiration, and feel life experience. So let’s get started welcome Sophie to the positive induction podcast and really excited to have you here actually, because I know that you get my attitudes towards induction and trying to make it as positive as possible for families. And today we are talking all things,
birth partners, which is such an important part. Yeah. Thanks for joining me. Thank you for having me. I love any opportunity to talk about birth partners. So yeah, less The partner is a breath partner, right? Someone you have with you at Barstow to support you. Yes. Yeah. Someone you choose to have with you when you’re giving birth.
And that may be, you know, it may be your partner. It may be a friend. It may be a family member. You may choose to go down the route of, of having a doula, which is what I am and who I trained. So yes, you have all sorts of different options when it comes to birth partners. And I think one of the common misconceptions that people make is that their life partner is going to be the best person to be with them during a birth.
And that may be the case, but something, Yeah, it was really interesting in terms of flight presuming who your partner would be, because that’s something I find that people can have a challenge arraigned when others expect to be the birth partner, but maybe not who you want to be a breath partner. I think not necessarily with your partner, but sometimes with mothers or sisters or other family members.
That is a challenging one. So how do you notice, like who’s the best breath partner for you then? I think for, for the pregnant woman or person is the person that, you know, you will feel really safe with, that you feel is going to cope? Well, a cope is, sounds like a negative word, but it’s going to be in that situation with you.
It’s going to be adaptable is going to be able to read the room and it’s going to be able to offer you the comfort that you need. And that’s going to look different for everybody. You know, some people like really kind of hands-on comfort and support and reassurance during their labor. And some people want to be left well alone, you know, just really be kind of in the zone in silence and just kind of quietly observed from a distance.
So yeah. Yeah. It’s got, it’s got to be someone that you feel safe and comfortable with. When, when I’m talking a lot to, to new doulas, they’re often really nervous about, you know, why would somebody choose me because I’m new and I’ve not done it. And I say, it’s always down to chemistry. It’s nothing to do with how much experience you’ve got.
It’s whether you gel and connect with, with the person who is going to have the baby, whether that person feels like they could go for a week in front of you or be sick in front of you, take some clothes off in front of you. That that’s the thing really. And, you know, 50 odd years ago, but we didn’t expect there was this,
this whole thing of, you know, cause it usually was assumed that it was a male partner. The man was not meant to be in the birthing room. And now it seems there’s been that massive pendulum shift and there is this cultural expectation that the man will be, or the partner will be in the room. And as I said before, that that might be brilliant,
but sometimes Interesting, I think, yeah, like you say, there is that change culturally and also I think there is still of negativity around how they talk about how useless men in particular, how useless men are in birthing sitting there. Like, I feel like just, I think it must be hard for breast partners when they hear those things in society.
There’s jokes made of like, oh, you’ll be fenced in the corner. You’ll be no youth or yeah, all you’ll be squares like me clinging onto you like digging my nails and to you, they can be such a more integral, positive part of the experience like whoever it is. But I think culturally, we still are quite negative. Oh yeah.
I mean, I love how birth is portrayed in the mainstream media, the majority of the time and how partners are portrayed because they are, they’re made to look like complete idiots and, you know, having been in many, many birth rooms over the years, I have witnessed the most incredible partnerships I have, you know, be those, your love partner,
your sister, your mother, your best friend, your, you know, it, it’s just extraordinary to see how amazing and supportive people can be in that space. And I’ve also seen some, some situations where they haven’t been. But you know, when we, when we have programs that like to make a drama out of something that is physiological, then you know,
of course it’s, it’s much more fun to watch somebody, you know, making a fool of themselves blowing up hospital gloves or fainting or being sick in a corner or something like that than it is to just see them quietly getting on and doing In terms of birth partners. Often the question that people have for me is that, well, what can we do?
What can we do? Because I think there is this idea of not wanting to feel helpless, not wanting to not want it to be that, oh, I’m good fainting birth partner and the corner. Like I feel in loss at court, what can breath partners do? And is it necessary for breakfast and do things? I mean, that, that,
that self was a misconception isn’t you always have to be doing, but yeah, your birth partner do to help. Yeah, completely, completely. I mean, I, I kind of wish that the word was Bila, not doula because you know, there is this, this idea that in the birth room, you constantly need to be doing something and actually a doula’s role or a birth partner’s role is about holding space.
And actually the best thing to do is just to, to be present and to listen because the person who’s birthing generally has a really good idea of what’s going on and what they need. So it’s being present and being able to listen and respond appropriately to that. So you’re right. I think he used the word helpless. I, I think a lot of birth partners often feel very powerless and helpless in the room because they are watching their loved one,
do something extraordinary, something very physical VI that requires all of their focus, all of their energy. And I think for the majority of us, it can be really tough seeing our loved ones in I’m going to use inverted commas in pain, because it’s a tricky word. That one, when it comes to birth, I wish there was a different way of expressing it.
But when you see someone going through something very intense, you know, very physical, intense sensations, that can be tough because we can’t take it away. We can’t remove it from them. We can’t do it for them. So recognizing that and then thinking about how we can actually be present is, is kind of the fundamental bit. And for me,
that comes with, Well there’s before like the, if you feel that you want to do something as a rest part that you want to be involved or how can it be most helpful? A lot of it is, as you see in the preparation, particularly with induction, the more you can learn beforehand because there’s going to be choices and decisions that have to make as with every breath there’s decisions,
where since you, the induction, there’s bigger decisions more quickly, often. And even just being like the signing board or the person who had like to have that conversation with can be really helpful as well. So yeah. What else has helpful beforehand to prepare? So I think, well, for the majority of preparation sessions that I would work would work with clients,
I would be exploring the feelings, you know, what’s coming up for them about the birth, wanting to look at, you know, what, what are their expectations? What are they afraid of? Let’s let’s look into that. And you talked about options. So few people are aware that they have options, particularly when it comes to a more medicalized birth.
So many people feel like they are obliged to just hand their body over and do what they’re told. And actually the evidence shows us that the people who were involved in the decision-making generally felt more positive about their birth experience regardless of how that birth went. So it could deviate massively from the original plan, but, but as long as you felt like you owned the decisions along the way,
then you’re doing okay. And when it comes to induction as a situation, I’ve been in many, many times before, I think what can so often happen is that you get, you know, they talk about the cascade of intervention and there can be an expectation of we’re going to do this and then that, and then that, and then not as if we have no choice in the matter.
And actually we do, we have choices at every step of the way. So our preparation, particularly when it comes to thinking about induction is knowing what the likely course of events is going to be or what, what is going to be proposed and doing your research around those things and working out what sits comfortably for you. So to give you an example,
I had a client who was, it was a long complex history, and I’m not going to go into it too much because of client confidentiality, but she was very comfortable to be induced at a certain point, but she was also absolutely 100% certain that she did not want to have. Sentosa known for a number of different reasons. So she was willing to have prostate glandons.
She was willing to have a water’s broken, various different options that were available to her, but that was her kind of point of no return. No, that’s not happening. And so, you know, it was about how do we negotiate that when there is an expectation amongst the medical staff, that that’s the next, The conversation beforehand so important and so much easier than in the moment discussing with your consultant or,
Yeah. And I think knowing, you know, having tools to make an informed decision. So I’m sure you talk here about, about using brain. Yeah. Almost every podcast episode. Yes, It is brilliant. It is absolutely brilliant. And I’ve pulled it out so many times in situations where, you know, things were a bit time sensitive, but it’s amazing how much you can cover in a very short space of time.
If you use those questions and really check in with, what is your instinct telling you in the situation, which is the one that really matters to me is what is somebody’s instinct telling me? And for those surgeons listening to this episode before any more, any other one that would be the benefits, why it’s helpful, why it’s being offered. Right. Generally the risks,
the other side of it, the instinct or intuition as you see at doing nothing. Yep. Yep. I have this problem that I can’t spell brain when I started and that’s the first time I’ve heard it. So I definitely normally spell Brian’s. So it went even stranger to, yeah. Brian’s the popular ones, but kind of bring Brian into the room today.
Yeah, absolutely. So benefits some risks, you know what, on the one hand this, and on the other hand, the other alternatives is always an interesting one. I mean, I think so many people don’t realize that they have alternatives and there are many when it comes to induction, you know, mobilization is, is an alternative. You know,
often they talking about the clock is ticking. Certain things need to be done within a certain time remembering that that is a guideline, a protocol, a policy it’s not a hard and fast rule. So actually, you know, we can always ask to wait, we can always, you know, say how about we give it another two hours, Your birth partner understand that kind of line of questioning before,
because sometimes we’re so focused and Libra, we forget to come back to those things. So having your breath partner be aware of it, I think often from where preparing for birth of sales were very much like we’re learning, we’re reading all this stuff, we’re doing a breast plan. And often we don’t share a lot of it with our partner. Like we’re not having this conversation even let’s sit down and look at our birth plan or breath preferences,
because I think some partners don’t have any idea what that means like on there. And so actually talking about it, like, why is this important to you? And what would we do in this situation is really a helpful thing to do before. Absolutely. And, and recognizing, I think, you know, circling back to what I was talking about at the beginning,
how does the birth partner feel about being in the room? Because actually, you know, if we’re, if we’re talking physiology, somebody else’s fear can have a detrimental impact on the laboring person. So, you know, if you get a midwife coming in the room, who’s not feeling all that great that day. It can really impact things similarly with a birth partner.
So getting, having the opportunity to do that, reflective work about how they feel talking it through with somebody, you know, a safe person so that when it comes to being in the room, they are calm, they are prepared, they are feeling supported and knowing who they can reach out to for that support, because it’s a, it’s a big job,
isn’t it to hold, hold Both partners with induction. There’s so often even more emotions involved in that lead up to adoption, especially if you had felt like you wanted to avoid induction or you didn’t feel like induction was a very positive option for you, but then towards the end of your pregnancy, it seemed like it likely, or it looks like it’s a possible,
it can be quite an emotional time. And it’s like you say, having it doesn’t even need to be a breath partner. It can be another friend who to helping you before labor, but yeah. Having that conversation with your partner as well. So they know what’s happening is important for sure. And in terms of physically like what you can do, okay.
Holding space is important, but, and induction like being in the room, what kind of things can a breath partner actually do that are helpful if the personally what’s that kind of hands-on or they want some support that’s more practical. Yeah. Yeah. Well, other comfort measures it’s entirely depends on, on what, what process of induction you’re going through. So,
you know, for example, if someone has got a Sentosa non drift pup, they are being monitored. Usually they might, well, they’re going to have drips and they will, might well choose to have an epidural. So, you know, introducing a whole load of back massage at that point may not be appropriate. However, there are other parts of the body that a lot of people enjoy having touched positive touch.
So, you know, some hand massage or feet massage or head massage, that can be really lovely. A lot of people really like having their hair stroked. We have, we have a huge number of nerve endings in our scalp. It’s a great way of releasing oxytocin. So, you know, brushing somebody’s hair or stroking their head, that can be really,
really lovely. So there are lots of physical things that people can still do. And it just totally depends on what position the person is in when they’re laboring and whether they actually want tactile touch, because a lot of people don’t in labor, but it may well be that they love aroma therapy and they choose to have some aroma therapy oils. Now, as a dealer,
I’m not qualified to recommend aroma therapy, but I’ve had many clients who’ve gone off and bought a blend for labor. And we’ve put a couple of drops of a lovely oil on a tissue, which they’ve sniffed and, and stuck in a burrow strap. And, and then if they decide, actually they’re totally anti the smell, they can just flush the tissue down the loo.
But you know, it just depends where you are. It’s possible in some cases to be in an induction and still be in water. So, you know, pouring water down someone’s back or them being in a shower, bouncing on a birth ball, all sorts of things. Lots of When you mentioned positions at helping you into different positions is really good as well,
because what you see when you’ve got all those things connected and you’re, you’re turning me if you’re a bit like, oh, Hey, my head and things like that to someone else, or it seems like it’s so much effort to, with all of the things attached to move like the cushions underneath your knees or whatever, like having someone support you in that way.
Exactly. I think quite a lot of people who have an epidural in, for example, we, we all know that lying on your back in labor is not where anyone would choose to be. It’s not optimal. It’s not where anyone would choose to be. And yet we become so focused on the bloody bed. But, you know, I have worked with lots of people in inductions where they’ve been on the ball,
they’ve been on, on a birth pool and that’s been a really comfortable place for them to be on their hands and knees or lean on the back of the bed and things like that. So just really still encouraging movement and optimal positioning. So yeah, And a lot of people recently using a peanut ball, peanut and sheep Spiel and yeah, the peanut was great.
So, you know, it’s a lovely way to lie on your side and keep the pelvis open, takes the pressure off a partner, lifting your leg, for example, because I’ve done a fair bit of that and it’s, it’s as good as a workout. Definitely. But yeah, one of the main things apart I can do with these to boost your own oxytocin,
isn’t it, whether that’s to like comforting touch or just being present really helpful. Yeah. Bringing, bringing the laughter, you know, not in appropriately, but you know, tender moments, lovely, loving moments, laughter moments, whatever feels appropriate and keeping, keeping as calm as possible because yeah, that, that will make the difference. We’re wanting enhance our physiology as much as we possibly can.
Even if we’re in a, in a medicalized situation, Articles, blog posts will tell you what’s packing your hospital bag when you’re going in for a breath. But what about for the breast partners where the breast partners need to bring for themselves or to help? Yeah, exactly. I mean, it’s a question that virtually every new doula asks me is what should I put in my doula bag?
And particularly, particularly kind of in the pandemic and beyond, I have always said, let the, let the birthing people pack their own bags. If they’ve got certain comfort measures that they need or want, they need to bring them because we can’t guarantee that, you know, someone will necessarily be with them. So if they know they want a particular pillow or an oil,
or I don’t know how bands or whatever it happens to be for them to make sure they have that for birth partners. I really want them to, to think about really encourage thinking about what they will need because inductions can be, they can be quite a long experience and it may be that you’re coming and going. If they have restrictions about who can be in an anti-natal ward or,
you know, when you’re going to transfer across to the labor ward, but generally make sure you’ve got things for your own self care and self comfort. So if you’re going to be partnering for a long time, you want to make sure that you are nourished. You’re going to need to take food hospital food may not be available all the time. It might not be that nice anyway.
No, exactly. And you know, if you’ve got any kind of food restrictions as I have, I mean, we want to make sure that you’ve got things that you can eat and that you’re not just relying on the vending machine and, you know, buying yet another MozBar and kind of Coke because, you know, that’s, that’s not healthy for anybody.
So making sure you’ve got really good, good food there while someone is in labor, you know, their physiology is in labor land, so they have different needs. But we, as the birth partners, we’re still in our circadian rhythms, we’re still, you know, kind of expecting to eat on a regular basis and keeping our energy up is, is really important.
So first and foremost, take food and plenty, plenty, plenty to drink because hospital environments are often really dry people often get horrible headaches when they’re in a, you know, if you’ve been in for a long time. So yeah. Often cause you’re dehydrated. So food, water drinks, whatever’s gonna to float your boat in that department, make sure you’ve got something that you can snuggle up and have a snooze.
I regularly cat nap when I’m at a long birth. And so if I’m a doula at an induction, I’ll often tag team with the birth partner. If it’s, you know, things are taking a while, I’ll get a crash mat on the floor and have a couple of hours snooze once I’ve enabled the partner to do that. And that means we are both having the opportunity to kind of refresh and recharge and be able to stay present because I have been at some inductions for days and you know,
I’m human. I can’t carry on without, you know, charging the battery and went back. She needs sleep and food and opportunities to go to the loo and freshen up, take some tech, a change of clothes or to take your toothbrush, you know, make sure you’ve got things that are going to make you feel fresh and human phone charges, phone charges,
a good Device is brushing your teeth. Doesn’t it? That’s, that’s great. It’s really useful. Cause there’s not a lot of cherry what breast partners could take. But yeah, I think that, that makes sense in the main breathing bag, having all the things that you would use, because as you say, like you’re not always necessarily together and with induction,
particularly you often have the airline induction, if you’re at a hospital or your partners in this has to go home overnight or whatever that you are missing out on that oxytocin and comfort of just having your partner there. Yeah. So Yeah. Thinking about making sure you’ve got everything, if your partner takes all this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing that,
you know, again, with, with somebody in labor is that their temperature can be very different to normal. So they may want to have all the windows open in the middle of the winter and you’re in a t-shirt and perishing the cold. So, you know, make sure you’ve got layers, things that you can put on if it gets really, really cold.
And similarly, you know, that you can fling off if it gets very warm, particularly if you’ve got, you know, someone who’s laboring in a pool or in a very hot hospital room, or, you know, as we said, you can get quite dehydrated. So making sure you’ve, you’ve caused some alternatives to where it’s quite good. Yeah.
And I think looking after yourself is so important as a breast partner, I think we are, of course it’s important to focus on actually a lever, but also like, especially if it’s a longer labor that you see it, it is a bit of endurance for them, the partners as well. I remember my husband’s so glad when my son was born because he hadn’t been to P for it for like eight hours.
Yes, absolutely. I Could finally go for a week. No one gets a certificate for enduring, you know, four and a half days without having any sleep at all. And what we have to really think about is what happens after birth is not a one and only event at the end, all being well, you’ve got a newborn to look after.
And so you’ve got days and weeks of, you know, all the joys that come with a newborn of your days being nights in your nights, being days and, you know, innate newborn behavior and factoring in how you’re going to look after this little person and how you’re going to feed and how are you going to nourish yourselves? And all of those things,
if a birth partner is absolutely completely on their knees at the end of the birth, because it’s been a really long one and obviously the laboring person is going to be in a huge physical and mental recovery. If you’re both totally innocently rung out and capable of doing anything, then that doesn’t make the first few days great either. So I really think it’s working out how you can get some rest during and talk again,
talking about that during the pregnancy so that you know, that someone else can step in for a little while and do those comfort measures, or to enable you to, you know, have a quick shower or have some sleep or have a, you know, eat a proper meal so that you can keep going. So that the battery isn’t totally enough to be flat.
Yeah. And I think that’s really important recognizing the, like the physical and emotional mental recovery for the person who’s just given birth. But also I think it’s important to recognize as a birth partner, like how you’re feeling after the birth is valid as well. Because I think quite often when I work with birth partners of, they’ve not mentally recovered from birth,
that they may even say that they have like birth related trauma, that they always feel like they can justify the fact that they feel that way. Or they’re not, they’re not allowed to feel that way. And it takes them generally a lot longer to come and ask for help or support. Yeah. Yeah. Because who are they compared to the person who had the baby,
right. And actually, you know, it takes, well, you know, if we’re talking about a couple, you know, this is a couple who are going to raise a child together. So everybody’s feelings are really, really valid and getting support to process. What you’ve been through is, is vital. You know, we, we don’t need to minimize our own feelings because we weren’t the one who physically birth the baby.
You know, if we were there that it’s, it’s really important. We have that space to kind of talk it, talk it out. Or, you know, if it’s trauma that there’s trauma informed care available. Yes. So for those who are listening, who are preparing for birth and the half the partner, like how should they start to get better prepared?
What kind of conversations or topics should they be talking to the partner about now with her induction being in a weaker? Do you know? I, the one question that I wish every couple would would ask in pregnancy, which I think rarely gets asked is how do you feel about being at the birth? That’s the first question and not being afraid to be honest,
because we tell ourselves when we’re full of the shirts, I should be there in order to be the best father partner parents I have to be there. I think it’s an open and honest conversation about how do I feel, and what’s coming up for me around being at the birth and then navigating from that point and recognizing, okay, so if you don’t feel like you are the best person to be in the room and to support me,
or if I don’t feel you’re the best person to be in the room, then what’s our, what’s our alternative, you know, what are we going to do differently? How can we continue to support each other as best as possible and make this our best experience, but forgetting what everyone else does. It’s unique to us, this, this particular dynamic.
So yeah, I think that’s the first question, which I wish everybody would ask and then everything comes from that point. Brilliant. So just one last question then, is there anything else that you want to share with us on partners or any tips or suggestions you want to give to our breast partner? Who’s listening. What I would say is for anybody out there who,
who wants to be a birth partner or has ever thought about being a birth partner, then do consider coming and training as a doula. You know, even if you think you’re only ever going to do it once funnily, I had dinner with some neighbors the other day who do totally different jobs and we were chatting about it and, and she turned around to me at one point,
she said, I want to do your course, even though I don’t think I’ll ever be a birth part, I feel like it would be so valuable for me to, to understand and learn. So for anybody who has even that tiny inkling in them, that they would like to be a birth partner or think that that’s something that’s, that’s in them,
come, come and come and do a due to training because there’s so much that you will gain, even if you never do it. So yeah. A warm, a warm invitation to nurturing and Having done your course. I definitely, Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Yeah, it would be amazing if flight more, there was more birth partners available.
Do you know what I was reading in the news this morning, that in New York, they want to make doula doulas free to all pregnant people. They want to make doula access a free to everybody because they want to reduce the maternal mortality rates. Now, how incredible would that be? If everybody, I mean, it’s my vision. Everybody who wants or needs due to support should be able to access it.
But how amazing would that be? If, if you know, when we were pregnant, we could just go, yes, please take this box. I w I would like to have a doula. I mean, obviously for me, as I said, it’s chemistry. I always want people to be able to pick and choose their doula. Yes. But you know,
how incredible would that be? So we need more doulas come and train. Yeah. Birth partners, all birth partners are wonderful. You have, you see the person, you, your love partner or whether it’s family member or whether it’s a doula or whether it’s a combination of Exactly. Yeah. Can have a such a positive impact. So Today, Sophie,
you’re very, very welcome. Thank you so much again, to Sophie. Here are a couple of points that stood out for me that I wanted to highlight freshly being a supportive birth partner is not always about doing something it’s about holding that space, being present. And as Sophie points out, listening to what the personal LIBOR really needs. Secondly, as a birth partner,
unimportant part of the rule is actually in the preparation, doing all the things you need to beforehand, whether that’s packing a bag that’s going to sustain you, or whether it’s preparing through birth preparation classes or taking time to have those important conversations, including discussing how your partner feels about being present at birth finally, and perhaps most importantly, choose a birth partner that makes you feel safe,
supported, where you feel as comfortable as possible. Choose someone who will help you, whose presence will be helpful rather than the person you feel you should have. Thanks for listening. Head over to the show notes for this episode@positiveinduction.com Farber slash episode seven, where you’ll find additional links and resources. And of course the positive induction course and induction course created specially for you,
which is a great way to repair with your partner. So you’re both as prepared as possible. Thanks again for being here with me today and do get in touch. If you have any questions, you can email me jade@positiveinduction.com. Our family on Instagram at positive induction. I hope you have a lovely week.
